We already know that there's going to be some sort of a full loot system but i personally think there should be more to dying still. The 2 things i've always wanted is a tiered xp loss system and some sort of short term incapacitation after dying.

The tiered xp system would work something like this:

So at the very first levels when you just started you wont actually loose any xp at all to give the new players a chance to get on their feet. The percentage you do loose will then rise nearly exponentially after a certain level. This way, it will in a way, even out a fight between a lower level player and high level player in that the high level player has more to risk.

Now before everyone starts complaining about possible 'gank squads' draining away their hard earned skills, i think both xp loss and also looting should vary according to different zones. So for example, there could be 3 types of zones:
Safe, which would be the starter areas and the major cities etc;
pvp/open, the border areas and possibly the more common high level pve areas;
war, the areas where guilds will be fighting for bases and such.

So in the 'safe' zones there would be minimal loot and very low if any xp loss, in the 'pvp/open' areas there would be normal looting and low xp loss and in the 'war' zones there would be full looting and normal xp loss. This would all have to be balanced in beta of course but thats just an example. Also, the big feature, is that if your flagged as a criminal you are always on full loot even if your in a safe area.

With this sort of a system, instead of it getting easier and easier as you rise through the ranks, you'll get more of a challenge instead. PVP will have more of a risk so it will be more calculated and people wont want to risk going after lowbies for no reason. Newbies will have more of a chance to get going.  It also extends the life of the game in that when you reach the high levels and are undertaking the more risky gameplay options you have to keep working to keep your skills up so it automatically helps dissipate the whole 'end game' problem.

Now the short term incapacitation thing has been talked about a bit in another thread so i wont go into it much. I just think there should be something along the lines of your skills being temporarily lowered so it takes a bit of time (5 minutes?) to get back to full strength and able to go and fight again. This would definitely make a difference in guild wars in that if you kill someone they cant just come straight back into the fight.

I think i've left something out but hopefully it will come up in discussion.

There aren't going to be levels but your still going to have to do a certain amount to get each skill up and im hoping its not just time based. So while you may not call it xp it should still be possible.

And if less people take the risk then the people that do take the risk will gain the bonus from it and have a bigger advantage. With more risk should come more reward.

It just concerns me that looting isnt really going to be a big risk. When they talk about the skills system they said that its partly done so items dont play as big a part, couple that with insurance and i dont think it will be that big a deal loosing some items.

I'd want some type of incapacitation, however brief, to help avoid "The Zerg".

XP loss in a game that's supposed to have a lot of PvP would hamper the PvP. People would only PvP when they were guaranteed a win. How boring is that? Takes no skill either. As much as people hate WoW's PvP, it actually encourages people to PvP vs people even if they *gasp* might not win 100% of the time! *gasp* because the death penalty isn't so harsh. I've seen more "Open PvP" fair fights in WoW than all other PvP games put together except WW2 Online and Planetside, which are FPS's, instead of RPG's.

Exactly, because the dev's are making it so items don't count as much people arent going to be worried about loosing their items, there needs to be something extra. I have no idea how xp loss would work as its obviously not a level based game but something along those lines would be great. We need to hear from the devs what they are planning.


Your assuming a lot there, ill make an example like many people already have, Eve online and Neocron. Eve was and is hugely successful and Neocron was absolutely loved by the people that managed to hear about it and they both had very risky pvp, a LOT more so than what im even proposing. And i never played it but i think UO was similar as well and it was one of the defining mmo's of all time.

And dont get me started on wow pvp, its not that the death penalties aren't harsh, there are none to begin with. I really dont see the point of pvp when you dont have to risk anything, excuse my language but its masturbation tbh.


Just read something that was posted in another thread, sorry for stealing it but it sums it up nicely..

I'm not assuming anything. Eve is a perfect example of how people avoid the risk. The gate campers outnumber their victims, and if some force comes to deal with them, they run away. I've never played Neocron, but I doubt very much human nature is going to change just for 1 game out there.

People WILL turtle if the risks are high, PotBS as another example shows this. The cost of death there is high, and so people  pvp in groups of 6 looking for single players. They almost never engage another group of 6 because they could lose. I know, I've done that. Two enemy groups of 6 right next to each other, not engaging each other.... instead, both waited for single players from opposite sides to be their victim. It was boring. What could have been a fun 6 on 6 fight never happens because people don't want to risk their precious stuff just for "fun". It costs too much to replace a ship in the game to let"Fun" be the deciding factor of when you PvP.

And those corps use "blob" tactics. Now why would they call it "blob" tactics... Again, no risk when you outnumber your foes dramatically. And typically, any ships lost on the blob side would be the "weenies", the newbs, or the bait.

Well, if you're aussies, you're also playing during low pop times when the threats are much less ...