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(QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
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Topic: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling (Read 10935 times)
Moll
Community Manager
Administrator
Posts: 1216
(QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
on:
February 02, 2009, 05:45:47 AM »
Hello there!
Two somewhat related topics were selected this week, based on answers our developers gave at the MMORPG.Com Earthrise Developer Chat. The limited chat time did not allow us to elaborate further on everything we could have, so this is a great time to provide clarification on these important subjects.
This week's questions are based on two quotes in particular:
Quote
<MMORPGBot> Kuhal asks, "Are characters able to equip more than one weapon and switch between them? If so, is it instantaneous or timed?"
<[MS]Ostiak> Not at the same time. Switching of weapons will be possible out of combat and will not be timed. While you are fighting you can fight only with the last equipped weapon.
and
Quote
<[MS]RaynerTheApe>: Players will be able to involve in three different types of PvP combat -
consensual (duels) with no item loss but a great chance to test your character built against others
; non-consensual player killing for loot and glory; and Territorial Conquest where guilds will wage wars for control over rare resources.
(bold emphasis ours)
And here are our questions:
Q: If someone sneaks up on me and I have no weapon equipped because I was crafting, do I have any hope of fighting back?
A: While crafting, players are never forced to leave their weapons aside. If you are ambushed while crafting, you can immediately respond to an aggressive action. But once combat starts, your character cannot swap his weapon for another. There are some very important strategic decisions associated with the choice of weapon, such as the type of damage dealt, the array of combat abilities that become available, and the weapon along with all other pieces of gear influencing your overall power that is used to calculate the spoils of the battle. Lorewise, Earthrise weaponry uses a configuration interface for powering through a character's energy matrix that requires fine tuning, which is not possible in the fray of a battle.
Q: Can you switch weapons between duels? Are there timers between duels planned? Is there a dueling mechanism? Are there any penalties for refusing duels? Can you turn it on and off (say to 'auto refuse' duels)? How will these mechanics differ from just being able to kill people out in the open?
A: We're still testing the basic model for consensual PvP so we have very few details to provide. Basically, duels are intended for testing skill and gear builds in a consensual, risk-free manner. There are no severe penalties for death, and there's no death at all - the loser is rejuvenated at the spot of the duel rather than respawned at a cloning facility, does not lose his life insurance, and he will not drop his inventory if not insured. Duels also do not give players death reports and do not allow them to place bounties. We will make sure that constant offers for duels do not bother players.
For those of you wanting more information on this topic, or possibly will want to refer to it later in other threads, key words/phrases/talking points for this topic include: weapon switching, dueling, duels, crafting, combat, energy matrix
We look forward to reading your thoughts on this topic.
~ m.
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Devildog1
Model Citizen
Posts: 230
I'm here for the beer! Have you seen my pants?!
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #1 on:
February 02, 2009, 07:21:31 AM »
I like the lore behind not being able to swith weapons in the middle of combat and also the point of not havinh to dop your weapons when crafting is awesome!
The consentual part of the PVP sounds great that way at least you can test you skill and equipment combos and learn to pvp with them with out taking a beating over it!
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Emerald22
Honorary Citizen
Posts: 335
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #2 on:
February 02, 2009, 07:33:23 AM »
Quote from: Moll on February 02, 2009, 05:45:47 AM
But once combat starts, your character cannot
swap
his weapon for another.
I assume by 'swap' they mean like one would 'swap' between equiped weopons in GoW or DeadSpace with the D-Pad and not mean like changing weopon in inventory for one in weopon slot like in WoW. Else all my opinions here = speculation.
I've been contemplating a large complaint about this idea but keep convinsing myself out of it, the idea is rather sound having just one weopon be it a sidearm or twohanded it adds more uniqueness and caution to what weopon you train in, I thaught I had issues with things such as mellee being kited and those with that large cannon being defenceless to mellee that it'd be rock paper scissors but in fact it makes sense, you gear up with fellow team members so picking the right group will be vital to success, being a certian style of player such as mellee theirs going to be enemy types that are hard to kill and easy to kill.
In the examples I stated their are solutions;
A mellee and long range fight - mellee weopons are lighter, and likely movement boosts will be specialised also to help close in without dying first, or use of stealth tech.
A player with that big cannon can do lots of damage per shot but the weakness to mellee is their drawback however, as a concept art peice showed their was a blade on a pistol I can only assume most if not all weopons have a mellee capacity, even if its just a blunt smack with the hilt atleast its a form of defence, relying on allies at that point is probably your only escape. But its a fair trade for damage output you'd otherwise do.
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Kole
Hero of Sal Vitas
Posts: 3854
Beware my raincloud of reality!
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #3 on:
February 02, 2009, 07:53:40 AM »
It would be nice if we could do a butt strike melee attack with our ranged weapons. It would be fine to me to pay for it in terms of item decay. It would be at least some sort of alternative if we run out of ammo during a fight or when a meleer gets in our face.
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Tallath
Model Citizen
Posts: 169
I be nobody!
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #4 on:
February 02, 2009, 08:54:12 AM »
Nice little lore there about the reason for no switching, makes it some what better and more reasonable. Also, I'm glad that crafters don't have to put down arms to craft.
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Time Glitch
Model Citizen
Posts: 140
This is my friend Dr. House. He likes pie.
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #5 on:
February 02, 2009, 09:30:06 AM »
Thanks for clearing some of that stuff up. I was afraid while crafting that I would become bait =).
This still doesn't settle my concern about your weapons constraining you to a certain class while in combat. Perhaps this is intentional? Maybe this is there way of providing a bit of a "class" system while in combat. This still concerns me because frankly I don't want to be limited to what I can or can't do in combat. If I specialized in doing 2 things, I want to be able to do 2 things when fighting. It just doesn't seem very smart to enable you to be any "class" you want, then tell you that you can only choose one of those "classes" in combat. I still think weapon switching should be allowed...But it looks like this decision is final.
This is my only complaint so far though, so keep up the good work guys.
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Stricnine
Honorary Citizen
Posts: 278
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #6 on:
February 02, 2009, 09:40:23 AM »
Quote from: Kole on February 02, 2009, 07:53:40 AM
It would be nice if we could do a butt strike melee attack with our ranged weapons. It would be fine to me to pay for it in terms of item decay. It would be at least some sort of alternative if we run out of ammo during a fight or when a meleer gets in our face.
I like that idea. Perhaps a hand to hand skill?
My biggest concern about not being able to switch weapons in combat is the paper-rock-scissors scourge. It forces everyone into repetitive roles, and greatly limits the strategies and tactics available for any given encounter. Since duels were specifically mentioned as an aspect of ER pvp I'd hope that every weapon skill would have different abilities allowing enough variety to overcome paper-rock-scissors limitations. Duels are lame if the outcome is determined before the first shot is fired.
I'm really glad crafters won't be vulnerable when doing their thing.
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Melkior
Hero of Sal Vitas
Posts: 864
N.E.R.F. - It's what's for breakfast!
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #7 on:
February 02, 2009, 09:58:15 AM »
I'm still really skeptical about the inability to switch weapon
In an idea world sure, everyone would travel in a perfectly balanced group, but there is always going to be a situation where you end up alone.
What happens if your enemy has high resistance/armour/etc against the weapon type you are using.
What happens if you run out of ammo for the weapon you are using.
Worst case scenario, what happens if your currently equipped weapon breaks in the middle of the fight
Anyone with half a brain will always have a back-up plan, but it seems the ability to prepare for any eventuality is being severely impaired.
It appears like it's going to be a guessing game in 1 on 1 combat, with luck being 50% of the win, based on who happens to choose the right weapon against their opponent, and only by being much "better" than them can you hope to beat them. (Perhaps this is what's meant by new players being able to beat much higher skilled players, they just need to get lucky with their weapon choice?). I also feel that it removes a lot of the tactical and thoughtful side of a 1 on 1 fight; i.e. using the right tool for the job.
Also, is there any clarification on what exactly counts as "in combat" or rather, how to get out of combat, as it could be based on a few different things:
Not taking/doing damage within a certain time
Having your HP fully regenerated after a fight
LoS/Proximity to a hostile player
Anyway, enough ranting, I hope to be proven wrong, and be pleasantly suprised if/when I get into beta, or play ER on release, so please, don't disappoint me!!
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- Maya Angelou
ghstwolf
Honorary Citizen
Posts: 293
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #8 on:
February 02, 2009, 10:41:46 AM »
I've always disliked the "in combat" lockout systems, a bit disappointing that it survives into another game. IMO it would be great to switch weapons or even certain pieces of gear, with penalties. For example, I'm running around with an assualt riffle but the fight goes close quarters so I sling the riffle back drawing out 2 hand guns. Now as a penalty, dmg is reduced (unsynced so I'm not aiming optimally) and many skills I should have are unavailible for several seconds as sync is established (even more powerful skills may have to wait for the weapon to charge off my power grid even after that). There are other times I dislike in combat lockouts as well, bandaging could make sense to be locked out but I prefer to be able to do it (just have the action highly penalized or undesirable).
Oh well not really a surprise.
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Kole
Hero of Sal Vitas
Posts: 3854
Beware my raincloud of reality!
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #9 on:
February 02, 2009, 11:33:32 AM »
Just a thought that came to me: Why do weapons need to be powered when we have a
QOTW post
that already describes them as having ammunition?
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koss
Honorary Citizen
Posts: 396
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #10 on:
February 02, 2009, 12:09:02 PM »
Quote from: Kole on February 02, 2009, 11:33:32 AM
Just a thought that came to me: Why do weapons need to be powered when we have a
QOTW post
that already describes them as having ammunition?
Think of a paintball gun that uses batteries for the auto-feeder
Its not as freeform skill-based as I had hoped now that I know its basically a dual spec system: One part determined by armor, another by weapon. At least we can still switch freely amongst them, so long as we are not in combat. I think I'd like to know now how much diversity there will be in a given setup, for example, how much variety there is amongst a squad of riflemen in light armor.
Also, are we we being promised gambling on duels?
«
Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 12:14:32 PM by koss
»
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Kole
Hero of Sal Vitas
Posts: 3854
Beware my raincloud of reality!
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #11 on:
February 02, 2009, 02:01:03 PM »
Quote from: Xyleya on February 02, 2009, 12:15:24 PM
You gear up, with tactics and abilities in mind and if you come across someone, who is geared to counter you, then you're screwed. End of story. And sorry, *** happens.
I'm really glad, it's the way I thought of all the time.
This is a scenario, where 3y old players have no advantage at all, just because they've trained up different weapons etc, but you've to rely on the stuff you've equipped and hope for it to work as intended.
If a newbie crosses your way and is geared to kill you, then you should be biting the dust and not just switch your gear to counter his counter -> this is freakin' balance!
Bah, the way you describe it makes player skill seem worthless and gear the thing that most determines how combat plays out.
I'd rather see a game where everyone has access to everything , is loaded out with all the guns and its up to the players how they use what they have which predicates if they win.
Thats balance and sounds more fun.
The only way balance exists in the system you are describing is that for every rock, there is a paper and a scissor. And you better hope the dev's don't accidentally include any dynamite.
«
Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 02:02:52 PM by Kole
»
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Draconis
Honorary Citizen
Posts: 303
The jig's not up yet?
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #12 on:
February 02, 2009, 02:46:54 PM »
Like Melkior mentions above, this lack of flexibility puts a higher premium on grouping. That's not necessarily a bad thing
I'd also like more clarification on what "out of combat" looks like. Can I disengage (that sounds much better than 'run away'
) and after a short time no longer be in combat and so can switch to other weapons in my inventory?
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Joker
Hero of Sal Vitas
Posts: 946
Patients is a virtue.
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #13 on:
February 02, 2009, 03:16:13 PM »
We all knew that gear will be an important role in battles. But we also knew that if you use your gear and skill build better than the person attacking you. Than you will win. Plain and simple. Even if the guy is geared to take you on, you still can take them on. This is a skill based game. Meaning even if the guy has better gear than you. What is the use of it if he does not know how to use those skills properly. I doubt a button smasher will win against someone that knows all his skills and how to use each one in every situation.
I can say this is perfectly fine in my opinion and makes sense. In a real life situation you will only have the option of what you are carrying on your hand or what is holstered on your belt. I doubt you will have time to stop mid battle and take out an other gun in your bag. (yeah that sounds really stupid to take your bag off your back and look through it and pull out an other gun.)
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Maeson
Citizen
Posts: 90
Re: (QOTW 02022009) Weapon Switching and Dueling
«
Reply #14 on:
February 02, 2009, 03:17:02 PM »
Urgh, this part is making me cringe my nose. Mostly since I have NO IDEA what to expect. All we have are speculations based on individual interpretations of what is being said.
All in all, this seems to be somewhat of a parallel to AO's system: You have ONE weapon! And then it's all programs, skills or just plain dumb luck. With the last part making up the bulk of it all. Toss in dynamic combat and, random chance will take on an even BIGGER role.
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