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Author Topic: (QOTW 12292008) Hide and Go Seek (Stealth, Hiding)  (Read 10009 times)
Moll
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« on: December 29, 2008, 12:31:30 AM »

Hello everyone,

One thing we're not hiding this week is Question of the Week! Our question this week was inspired by this thread.


What kind of options are available for stealth? Will there be a way to hide, or will we need to hide behind/in/under objects in the world?
 
When it comes to stealth, players will be able to use a lot of different abilities and options when it comes to hiding their character out of plain view or even better, cloaking their character for someone else and surprising the opponent when he least expects it. Players will be able to become invisible and approach their enemy unexpected, although options for detecting invisibility will be popular enough for the paranoid player who constantly utilizes them to feel safe from being hit from behind. But many other abilities will exist that allow a character to hide their affiliation to either Continoma or Noir, thus faking an ally when he actually is an enemy and therefore be able to sneak past guards and enemy faction members, or abilities that hide criminals' fame which otherwise would make him hunted by the local security. While cover and active hiding behind smaller objects will not be part of the combat system, players will have the option to hide behind buildings and expect to be safe from direct attacks.

Please enjoy, and feel free to discuss below.
~ m.
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Thatim
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 12:37:56 AM »

Cool!


I like that I am able to "hide" and mask myself! That way, it I am able to do my sneaky stuffz..
Like no-one would see that one comming.


But is there a penalty or something for it? Or will it be only for a few minutes and with a cooldown? If not, I don't see a reason for players to show their name true faction, besides when they want to be in the capital of the belonging faction.

And is it possible to hide your name? And change it?
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babylon
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 12:49:15 AM »

ohh nice. any info on cooldowns for hidey skills? any skills that allow players to cloak and leave combat (lose aggro)?
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Tallath
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 01:26:40 AM »

So one could assume as you train in the stealth abilities, the better you have it, the longer and more cloaked you will be?

Also.. Will you be able to fight and remain cloaked?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 01:29:35 AM by Tallath » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 01:34:27 AM »

Nice Moll thanks a lot!

Loved the faking ability   Wink

But regarding to being invisible, will it be a complete invisible or like something else that we can see in some games that do also have a future scenario?

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Kole
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 01:39:58 AM »

Hmm, I'm not overly happy about the information here - its a mixed bag really.

When it comes to stealth, players will be able to use a lot of different abilities and options when it comes to hiding their character out of plain view ...

I'm assuming that hiding in plain view is using camo and shadows. This kind of player driven stealth is what I'm looking for so I'm hoping my assumption is correct.

Players will be able to become invisible and approach their enemy unexpected, although options for detecting invisibility will be popular enough for the paranoid player who constantly utilizes them to feel safe from being hit from behind.

Does this mean, magical-like 1-button, your-client-no-longer-renders-me invisibility is in? Or is there still a render such as "Predator" like translucency?

But many other abilities will exist that allow a character to hide their affiliation to either Continoma or Noir, thus faking an ally when he actually is an enemy and therefore be able to sneak past guards and enemy faction members, or abilities that hide criminals' fame which otherwise would make him hunted by the local security.

This sounds neat - I look forward to seeing how its implemented without making alligance or fame meaningless.

While cover and active hiding behind smaller objects will not be part of the combat system, players will have the option to hide behind buildings and expect to be safe from direct attacks.

This is the real killer here. To me this means combat will be about having the highest dps and staying moving out in the open all the time. It really strips away a lot of tactical options like digging in behind low cover. Now the only known way of minimizing being hit is to be as fast as possible. Honestly, I couldn't believe it when I read this.

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babylon
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 01:45:11 AM »

players will have the option to hide behind buildings and expect to be safe from direct attacks.

i like the sound of this - hoping this means ranged attacks will not travel through walls.

*edit* read that this is the case, so happy with that.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 02:37:33 AM by babylon » Logged

koss
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 01:51:13 AM »

This is the real killer here. To me this means combat will be about having the highest dps and staying moving out in the open all the time. It really strips away a lot of tactical options like digging in behind low cover. Now the only known way of minimizing being hit is to be as fast as possible. Honestly, I couldn't believe it when I read this.

yeah but lets be reasonable. Take any FPS that's well balanced and has a lot of cover gameplay in the environment. Now make the game world 100's and 100's times larger, and add 100s of abilities far beyond the variety of guns/rockets, and now you'll have imagined the impossible. Not to mention this is an RPG with some soft-lock, its not a TPS.
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Kole
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 02:03:11 AM »

yeah but lets be reasonable. Take any FPS that's well balanced and has a lot of cover gameplay in the environment. Now make the game world 100's and 100's times larger, and add 100s of abilities far beyond the variety of guns/rockets, and now you'll have imagined the impossible. Not to mention this is an RPG with some soft-lock, its not a TPS.

Tabula rasa's combat, although somewhat flawed in its implementation, considered both cover and character position. It simplified cover into four levels (no cover, moderate cover, heavy cover, no LOS). While still simple, it was sufficient to provide tactical decisions ranging from where to base a strike, to the path you took to the target, to were you bunkered down for an assualt.

I consider the lack of a cover system to be a fantasy melee genre hold over. A futuristic shooter should take into account what I would call a fundamental feature of ranged combat.

I personally only know of TR using cover. Can somewhat speek to what Planetside, AO, or any other sci-fi games used?
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koss
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 02:35:27 AM »

Tabula rasa's combat, although somewhat flawed in its implementation, considered both cover and character position. It simplified cover into four levels (no cover, moderate cover, heavy cover, no LOS). While still simple, it was sufficient to provide tactical decisions ranging from where to base a strike, to the path you took to the target, to were you bunkered down for an assualt.

I consider the lack of a cover system to be a fantasy melee genre hold over. A futuristic shooter should take into account what I would call a fundamental feature of ranged combat.

I personally only know of TR using cover. Can somewhat speek to what Planetside, AO, or any other sci-fi games used?

After TR went free I tried to check it out, but the download files were bogus or something. Anyway, I almost feel like I want MH to abandon a part of their game and add cover mechanics, because that's my favorite thing in shooters these days... it's so authentic, it's value is so transparent on the battlefield. But ER is supposed to be a rich RPG experience, so I have to fulfill my shooter fix somewhere else :/
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 03:19:33 AM »

But many other abilities will exist that allow a character to hide their affiliation to either Continoma or Noir, thus faking an ally when he actually is an enemy and therefore be able to sneak past guards and enemy faction members, ...
(emphasis in bold.) This implies that our faction is somehow visible or open to inspection by other players. Have the devs decided how this will happen? Or was this only to affect NPCs.
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Zorky
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« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 03:58:53 AM »

Im quite happy with the info we got although it could have been more detailed it gives us a taste how we will be able to do undercover stuff such as infiltrate enemy areas and kill behind a mask of an ally
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Joker
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« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 04:06:24 AM »

Im quite happy with the info we got although it could have been more detailed it gives us a taste how we will be able to do undercover stuff such as infiltrate enemy areas and kill behind a mask of an ally
Yeah I am not going to really give feedback as that is really small information to ride off on.  As small objects is not really defined. I would expect tho small objects could be defined as tree, rocks, pillars, etc... That is what I think could define as small objects. Now I would understand trees as Ak47's can shoot through trees also. So I would guess since we are in the future the weapons are a lot more powerful.

But I am happy that you will be able to detect a player in stealth or a player that is masking him/her self. Would like to learn more about those utilities that give us those options to detect such players. Also would like more information on What it takes to actually become stealth. Is it a skill, a gear, a hand held device...?
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Viptir
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« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 05:23:47 AM »

After our lengthy discussion about stealth and camo, I'm surprised they went in this direction. I think the faction/fame disguise will be interesting, but the invisibility abilities? I really thought we were moving away from this garbage.

Now the major concern that the QOTW did not address - Fine, people can "cloak" to sneak up on an enemy and folks can counter it with detection abilities. Can they cloak to escape combat? If so, this is a game-breaker for me. If you must have this ingame, at least disable the ability while in combat.
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Ouzi
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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2008, 05:24:18 AM »

"you can become invisible" how pathetically unorginal - real bummer for me this, maybe ill stick to darkfall Sad
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