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Author Topic: Early week read: "Timesink: Why MMOs Take So Long"  (Read 266 times)
Moll
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« on: July 27, 2010, 07:17:31 AM »

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/feature/4416/General-Timesink-Why-MMOs-Take-So-Long.html

Enjoyable article!

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qeloqoo
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2010, 07:39:54 AM »

Yep, read it before you posted.. But in most cases if I were dev described in that article... I would say "screw you with dual shield wielding and screw you with variety of cool shield attacks and screw you with bookshelves for robot-people" and spend time on something more important...
Game can't please everyone, trying to achieve that is pointless.
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Felix12g
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« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2010, 07:51:41 AM »

Quote
So, now the game is out, and the real struggle begins. Why oh why did we not spend more time in production?

Heh.
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« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2010, 12:39:54 AM »

If you're Cryptic they only take six months  Tongue
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Kole
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« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2010, 01:30:13 AM »

The article makes MMOs sound like they are designed by idiots who aren't able to hire appropriate staffing, have knee-jerk reactions to tester/player feedback, apply band-aid solutions to problematic features, and who aren't able to see their own product from the point of view of the player.

Hell, most of what the article touches on isn't even specific to MMOs, but multi-player games in general.
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Cavadus
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2010, 06:40:51 AM »

The article makes MMOs sound like they are designed by idiots who aren't able to hire appropriate staffing, have knee-jerk reactions to tester/player feedback, apply band-aid solutions to problematic features, and who aren't able to see their own product from the point of view of the player.

Sounds pretty accurate to me...
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Harabeck
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« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2010, 07:00:40 AM »

Sounds pretty accurate to me...
Actually ya. For all sorts of organizations we tend to attribute the actions within that organization to be something special. Like, you walk into a wal-mart and just see the nice clean shelves all stocked with products and you think it's some sort of super organized army that takes care of it. Then you go work there for a summer and see that it's just people throwing things onto pallets and other people throwing them up on shelves. Or like how you feel surprised when you see your high school English teacher out on a date. I imagine that MMO developing is just another job filled with mostly normal people.  I think the issues mentioned in the article sound perfectly realistic. If you spend months designing a system from the inside out, I don't it's far fetched that you might miss that it would be hard to grasp for someone who has never seen it before.
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Kole
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« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2010, 07:19:35 AM »

What? I'm talking about competency. The reasons/reactions the writer brings up makes it sound like the developers aren't competent.

Seeing your English teacher on a date doesn't mean he's not a good educator.
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Harabeck
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« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2010, 07:49:58 AM »

The reasons/reactions the writer brings up makes it sound like the developers aren't competent.
No, it's just that you have to remember that they're human like the rest of us and making an MMO is very tricky. The author was just pointing out some common pitfalls.
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Kole
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« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2010, 08:18:44 AM »

The only common pitfall in this article seems to be poor planning and focus.  They set their milestones and budgets after creating their design document. How can you design anything if you don't know how much money and time you have with which to implement it?

Also in an article trying to explain why MMOs take so long to design unlike other games, I'd figure the author would talk about what's unique about MMOs and why they take so long to design. Other than the mention of server hardware, nothing he discussed was unique to MMOs.
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Felix12g
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« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2010, 12:35:34 PM »

Or like how you feel surprised when you see your high school English teacher out on a date.

I remember that, though he ended up in jail because she was underage.
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Ironfield
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« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2010, 03:25:26 PM »

I remember that, though he ended up in jail because she was underage.

Honest Officer! She said she was 18!

Back on topic:

The only common pitfall in this article seems to be poor planning and focus.  They set their milestones and budgets after creating their design document. How can you design anything if you don't know how much money and time you have with which to implement it?

Good point Kole.

The planning stages truly makes or breaks a project, whether a video game or as in my profession construction. Budgetary and time constraints are the deciding factor as the client always wants it on time and under budget. As a planning engineer we need to know the available resources at our disposal in order to accurately plan the methodology of how to reach the desired goal. 

If you half arse it then it will fail.

-Ironfield
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Felix12g
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« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2010, 07:29:42 PM »

It is amusing how the author tries to make it seem like core design is done mid-project as a matter of course. Granted, some studios have a tendency to keep going back to the drawing board and take forever to release a product, but sometimes its necessary. Problem is doing so too many times.
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« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2010, 10:13:34 PM »

Honest Officer! She said she was 18!

I can't believe I've never heard this one yet on the job.

I also can't believe I've never had a chance to use it....though as a funny story....

I was sitting in my car making out with a girl that I had known about a week.  This was some time before I became a cop, and this police officer comes up to the car mid make-out session and knocks on the window that was partially rolled down, I take a look, look at the girl and exclaimed "I thought you were 18!"  The cop busts out laughing and shook his head.  "Just make sure you finish what you're doing here within the next few minutes."  Then walks off to his unit.

Sadly, the girl and I never talked after that night.  Probably because I made her show me her ID and she was offended.  She was also over 18, so I dodged a nice bullet there.
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Harabeck
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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 02:58:42 AM »

It is amusing how the author tries to make it seem like core design is done mid-project as a matter of course. Granted, some studios have a tendency to keep going back to the drawing board and take forever to release a product, but sometimes its necessary. Problem is doing so too many times.
Actually, the diagram he showed near the beginning is one I've seen in my college computer science courses. It's a simple fact that the design of any large program will be altered in development. It doesn't matter if it's an MMO or an accounting system. That doesn't mean that you're supposed to redesign the entire thing of course, but you have to be prepared to make changes. Maybe you have to have some programming experience to realize this, but nothing he said in that article is at all far fetched; in fact, I'd say it's very common. My father makes complaints that obviously stem from the same pitfalls about the electronic medical records systems he has to use.
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